With one legal battle behind them, Kari Baker’s parents are now planning to wage another battle — getting custody of their two granddaughters.

Jim and Linda Dulin on Thursday heard a Waco jury sentence their former son-in-law, Matt Baker, to 65 years in prison for murdering their daughter.

They are taking some time to recoup from the trial, Linda Dulin said Friday, but soon they plan to take legal action to try to gain custody of their daughter’s two children, 13-year-old Kensi and 9-year-old Grace.

Linda and Jim Dulin (back) are poised for a custody fight for 9-year-old Grace Baker (front) and 13-year-old Kensi Baker.
Photo courtesy of Dulin family

The girls are living in Kerrville with Matt Baker’s parents after he gave them guardianship before the trial.

“This isn’t about taking them away from their paternal grandparents,” Linda Dulin said. “But this is about putting things in a position where they can get the help they need from people who love them more than anything on the face of this earth.

“We want to do everything we can to make them whole and healthy. No poisoning, no trying to destroy people they love. We just want them to heal because they are the most tragic victims.”  

But Matt Baker’s parents, Oscar and Barbara Baker, say they won’t let the girls go without a fight. The children have been living with them since their mother’s death nearly four years ago.

The girls know the Dulins want custody of them, Barbara Baker said. They also think their mother killed herself and that their father is innocent. She describes the time the Dulins spend with the children as “psychological warfare.”

“We’re going to talk this weekend about reality,” Barbara Baker said Friday, referring to a discussion she and her husband plan to have with the children.

Dulins’ legal standing

In cases such as the ones shaping up between the grandparents, one of the first issues likely to surface is whether the Dulins have legal standing to ask for custody, said Waco attorney Ben Selman. Like the other experts the Tribune-Herald spoke with, Selman said he was commenting on child custody cases in general, not the Baker girls’ case in particular.

The law says parents have the right to raise their children without interference from others, except in narrow circumstances, Selman said. That usually would mean children such as Matt Baker’s daughters would be allowed to live with any suitable adult they chose.

However, third parties can ask for custody under certain circumstances, Selman said. In cases like Baker’s, where one parent is dead and the other is incarcerated, grandparents like the Dulins might be able to get standing by arguing the children are in a dangerous situation. They could claim the paternal grandparents’ support of Matt Baker would harm the girls.

Relatives such as the Bakers, on the other hand, could likely gain standing by virtue of the fact that they have cared for the girls for a lengthy period, Selman said.

Assuming a judge determined both sets of grandparents could vie for custody, each side would then compile evidence about why they think the children should live them, Selman said. Typically, that would include hiring mental experts to evaluate the children, he said.

For the judge in the case, the overriding issue would be what is in the best interest of the child, said Patricia Macias, an El Paso family law judge who is immediate past president of the National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges.

One thing a judge would take into consideration is who the children want to live with, Macias said. But a child’s preference is never the sole criteria, she said. She noted, too, that siblings can have different wishes, which can add another layer to the equation because judges try to keep siblings together.

Another factor judges weigh is which environment would provide more stability, Macias said. An argument can be made that it’s traumatic for children to be yanked out of where they have been living and going to school. But on the flip side, it could be argued the children would have more stability in a different setting, even if it’s new, she said.

“It’s all very, very fact-specific,” Macias said.

In cases where one parent has killed the other, Selman said, a judge is likely to weigh which environment would better protect the children from ongoing trauma. One issue could be whether the involved parties would let the incarcerated parent have other contact with the children. A judge would usually defer to the advice of a mental health professional on such issues, he said.

Terminating rights

If grandparents such as the Dulins were granted custody, they later could move to terminate the parental rights of the imprisoned parent. Felony incarceration is one basis for such action, Macias said.

But even if a parent has received a life sentence, that alone is not enough to justify termination, Macias said. It has to be determined that severing the relationship is in the best interest of a child, she said.

Selman said termination suits are rarely effective, because of society’s belief in the profound nature of the parent-child bond. Even in cases where a parent has severely injured a child, he has seen juries struggle with the idea of termination, he said.

“They are always looking at a redemptive possibility,” Selman said.

Local attorney Damon Reed added that a move for termination usually would not occur until the appeals of the incarcerated parent have been exhausted.

Whatever happens with the Baker kids, Reed said, one thing is sure. They have a rough road ahead of them.

“Only a fool would think that the Baker family would suddenly turn around and say (Matt Baker) is guilty because that’s what the jury said, and only a fool would think that the Dulins would suddenly not feel Matt Baker killed their daughter,” Reed said. “Those kids are going to be in a tug-of-war for the rest of their lives.”

cculp@wacotrib.com

757-5744

Tribune-Herald staff writers Erin Quinn and Tommy Witherspoon contributed to this article.

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