Waco Breaking News

By bill

July 24, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Being hired to head baylor university is not, in itself, a freedom as you personally see fit and to not work within the guidelines. Lilly took it upon himself as ‘Savior” of baylor university and the attitude of ‘we’ll do it my way and my way only.’ what a sad state of thought in this case. a brilliant mind but no loyalty.
Brush off the alumni, brush off the professors (let’s see: what is your address, you live where?, zip code, etc—get the message) oh, and let’s change school colors—I (lilly) like yellow and a different color of green-no BU to be seen……and many other acts of disrespect he performed at baylor….probably gave the approval for the ‘cheerleader’ fiasco as ian covered that up…… i wish him well. he just needs to learn the history and traditions of any place he goes…. he did not learn that at baylor.

By michael

July 24, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

COOL! I compare Lilly to John McCain—just more of the same. He’s a Sloan clone. So adios and good riddance. What Baylor needs is an Abner or Herb clone. Oh, and a new board of regents.

By j

July 24, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

About time. I guess this past semester’s tenure denying debacle finally broke the camel’s back. They should have just kept Underwood.

By Baylor

July 24, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

WE DO NOT NEED A HERB CLONE EVER AGAIN! EVER!

By Zorayda

July 24, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Was Herb the guy with an “asbestos files?” Sick!

By The Ghost of Pat M. Neff

July 24, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

What Baylor needs is a Pat Neff clone. The guy not only kept BU open during the Great Depression and WWII, he actually helped it grow during those difficult times.

I fully support a Zombie Pat Neff presidency!

By Class of 74

July 24, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

The board of regents have proved time and again they are crap for brains gold digging morons who are wealthy from the old money passed down through family generations.They hold up in posh lavish suits out of county making these poor kids attending Baylor pay the expensives.We need a new crew!!!! I also hope Baylor gets kicked out of the Big-12 in football…..Baylor needs to be in a softer football situation,Im tired of us getting our butts kicked and handed to us 6-7 games a year…..Never happen though—cause this board of regents are morons.

By billy

July 24, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

“Class of 74” is right. The Board of Regents is the problem at Baylor - and has been for quite some time now.

By B.T.

July 24, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Lilley is a good guy; he was just removed from the situation here at Baylor for so long that he really didn’t seem to grasp the idiosychracies of the university and the position.

Being president of any other university is nothing like being president of Baylor University. It is much more political and alumni opinion carries quite a bit more weight.

Lilly is a good man and actually a good administrator, but you need the right man or woman for the job and it just turned out that Lilley wasn’t the right fit that we needed.

I do commend him for his time, efforts, and love of Baylor University during his time here.

By Teen Wolf

July 24, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

I’m glad Lilley is gone! I never saw him demonstrate any passion for Baylor. Is it too late to bring back Robert Sloan? Maybe we need to stop letting the good presidential candidates go elsewhere (ie: O’Brien, Underwood). Please get tuition under control so my kids can go to Baylor too!!!!

By Lilley Sucked

July 24, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Lilley sucked. This is the right move months too late. He operated daily on a “what is good for me” basis and always put himself above what was good for Baylor.

He was offered a transitional out that would allow he and Baylor both to look good but once again he put himself over Baylor.

Good riddance to a trashy worthless jerk.

By R

July 24, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

It is interesting to see how power is continually used in our social and organizational constructs. We see leaders come and go, rise and fall, praised as heroes then demonized for the lack of qualities we imagine as what defines a great leader. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi all faced similar challenges with their leadership. This is not at all to raise our past president to the level of these great leaders, far from it. I am not comparing leading a nation to that of leading a University. However, it is still a sad day that Baylor must once again search for a new champion. There is no argument that this president failed miserably to demonstrate the qualities of a good leader. A leader, who can demonstrate compassion and understanding, who can provide vehicles of communication, in order to listen and implement solutions of compromise and duty, is what this fine institution requires.

But, let us not put the entire fault upon this one man, for it is the entire leadership of Baylor that comes into question. This includes the Board of Regents, the Faculty Senate and the Senior Faculty, who all must be held to task. In order to build a strong organization of any kind, it takes the people working together toward a common, cooperative and constructive goal that will in the long term define the organizations greatness. I am not talking about leadership by consensus, rather leadership by allowing for the promotion, discussion and negotiation of these primary and fundamental ideas, by all parties. Let us not be childish and understand that not everyone is going to get their way and win every debate. Nonetheless, these debates must happen. Ultimately, the leader will make the final decision, as it should be. We must, as part of the body of the organization or institution, abide by these final decisions and support them in a unified front. Those that disagree will be given other opportunities to present their agenda and fight for what they believe is good for Baylor. However, we must all remember and never lose sight of the primary goal that what we do must be for the good of Baylor University.

I wish the Board great success in finding a successor, and I pray that they remember to focus on leadership qualities not on superfluous attributes or degrees. I pray the Senate and Senior Faculty work with administrative leadership in the same cooperative and compassionate manner that we all demand of our leader. Most importantly, I pray for the continued success and greatness of Baylor University.

By zip

July 24, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Baylor tradition?? Could someone please explain further what the traditions are at baylor. That, and getting rid of the ‘bu’ for ‘baylor’ would have been a great move for name recognition. marketing for enrollment, etc. Ask anyone outside of tx what ‘bu’ stands for and they have no clue. Trsut me, I have lived other places and never heard of baylor. Others (myself until I moved here) have no clue what ‘bu’ stood for.

Change is never easy…and I am sure he ruffled plenty of feathers - thus probably deserved to be fired. However, baylor IS NOT that well-known excpet here in tx…it’s just a dot on the roadmap outside of central texas.

By Loves Baylor U

July 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

We need to try and lure back Bill Underwood. If he wont come back then we need to hire someone is his mold. We dont need a preacher eiehter…we need an academic with experience in running a major private university.

By Paul

July 24, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

It is sad that over the past decade or so BU seems to have been distancing itself more and more from its Alumnae and also failing to maintain its historically strong assistance to its students in terms of meaningful job placement assistance. The quest for big $s, Big 12, big campus, and desire to associate with “big names” has weakened some of the kind and gentle nature of the BU that I remember. It seems all attention is focused upon $s and status — and mediocrity has been creeping into the faculty and staff (e.g., in the area of placement counseling and assistance). Hopefully, some rump group within the regents will band together and seek a President who will begin restoring BU FAMILY traditions and loyalty, dump the Big 12 so we again can attend athletic events with some degree of hope, restore Baylor’s willingness to find ways for its “families’ families” to attend Baylor, and strengthen assistance to its students in finding decent placement after graduation. I’m not interested in growth and fame at the expense of family values and wholesome traditions.

By Raymond

July 24, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Baylor and its reputation for running people off continues. It’s embarrassing. I feel sorry for the man for giving up a good job to come here. Baylor wants to be run by indians, and not a chief. Every major university in the south expects their faculty to publish, and earn tenure. Baylor faculty believes they can keep running presidents off until they get to do whatever they want. Let’s just hope they don’t bring Underwood back now. That guy has a dark side that will become another major cloud to embarrass Baylor.

By Baylor Grad and Beer Drinker

July 24, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

I think we need to hire Former Baylor coach Eric Schnupp. He could party with our christina students and find out how they want the university to operate.

Your provost with the big teeth could see the writing on the wall and took a job somewhere else.

By Joshua

July 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

OH PLEASE NO UNDERWOOD!!!

By its obvious

July 24, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

I have worked at Baylor for some time now, and feel that the board is stifeling growth. Many of the regents are powerful and wealthy, and care more about(their) agenda than the big picture. Trimming the number of board members should never have been done thru attrition, but by drawing straws. Baylor is a great institution, but is being hindered by bickering and power plays of regents who are able to intimidate other board members and the administration. I hope they are able to see their past errors and put aside their differences to make the right decision on a new President. These are many of the same people who hire and fire football coaches on a regular basis, because things weren’t going their way! Please stop trying to micromanage the university and rewrite your role as the regents. Eventually, we will not be able to hire Presidents or Coaches because of the reputation we have earned for their short careers. This is of course my opinion, but I think many would agree with me.

By Good Enough is Not Good enough

July 24, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

I must say to John Lilley that a recent famous quote that you repeated a number of times comes to mind here….”Good enough is just not good enough for Baylor.” Well, John, let me say…Good enough is NOT good enough for Baylor, and that applies to the President as well. I applaud the Board of Regents for having the courage to take this necessary step.

By bear

July 24, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Dub Oliver for president!!!

By Spike

July 24, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

I am voting for Kevin Steele

By TIM C

July 24, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Who in their right mind would want to be the president at this university.

By hjames

July 24, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Someone in previous comments declared that Baylor is not well known outside of Texas. Not so, compadre. I have lived all over the USA as a military brat, a student, as a political consultant and as a coach. Anytime I mentioned Baylor, people recognized the name and always had fair, if not good, things, to say about Baylor. That was the case in Tennessee, where I coached. In Illinois, where I coached. In California, where I lived. In Washington, DC, where I worked in the capitol many years ago and everywhere I have lived or even visited inside or outside the USA.

Baylor is better known, historically, for its athletic successes than Boston University/BU, most certainly. Baylor is even better known for its overall athletic success than Boston College/BC (except for football in recent years). Baylor is better known for track, women’s basketball, now men’s basketball, m/w tennis, even baseball, softball, etc.. And Baylor has had its share of Texas governors, powerful politicians, great legal practitioners, doctors, etc.

Yes, Baylor/BU has had its recent embarrassments on the football field and with the Bliss situation, but when someone claims Baylor/BU is an unknown athletic and academic entity outside Texas, they really need to get their facts straight. Of course, people who don’t get out of Texas have no real idea what people outside Texas know or don’t know. Baylor can do better and will do better and that is the proper task for all of us..do better!

Baylor needs to hire a great president with a national reputation and pay him/her accordingly and get out of the way. Hire someone who has done the job elsewhere and who can be trusted to do the job and let him/her do the job. Apprise that person of what Baylor wants to be and what it wants to do. Give that person the power to accomplish those things. Set some timetables and some deadlines and be sure that the new president sees Baylor as a potentially great national and world class educational entity; certainly more than a Baptist Bible college. Dr. Lynn was right. If Baylor alums and administrators want a Bible college, that is what they’ll get, to their shame and embarrassment. If they want a great university founded upon Christian principles rather than a place for narrow “religious” indoctrination, they will have to put up or shut up! Doctrinaire “religionists”, who live to make symbolic gestures which do not impress God in the least, must not rule!!!

By Dub Oliver?

July 24, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Dub Oliver? Oh hell no.

By hjames

July 24, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Someone in previous comments declared that Baylor is not well known outside of Texas. Not so, compadre. I have lived all over the USA as a military brat, a student, as a political consultant and as a coach. Anytime I mentioned Baylor, people recognized the name and always had fair, if not good, things, to say about Baylor. That was the case in Tennessee, where I coached. In Illinois, where I coached. In California, where I lived. In Washington, DC, where I worked in the capitol many years ago and everywhere I have lived or even visited inside or outside the USA.

Baylor is better known, historically, for its athletic successes than Boston University/BU, most certainly. Baylor is even better known for its overall athletic success than Boston College/BC (except for football in recent years). Baylor is better known for track, women’s basketball, now men’s basketball, m/w tennis, even baseball, softball, etc.. And Baylor has had its share of Texas governors, powerful politicians, great legal practitioners, doctors, etc.

Yes, Baylor/BU has had its recent embarrassments on the football field and with the Bliss situation, but when someone claims Baylor/BU is an unknown athletic and academic entity outside Texas, they really need to get their facts straight. Of course, people who don’t get out of Texas have no real idea what people outside Texas know or don’t know. Baylor can do better and will do better and that is the proper task for all of us..do better!

Baylor needs to hire a great president with a national reputation and pay him/her accordingly and get out of the way. Hire someone who has done the job elsewhere and who can be trusted to do the job and let him/her do the job. Apprise that person of what Baylor wants to be and what it wants to do. Give that person the power to accomplish those things. Set some timetables and some deadlines and be sure that the new president sees Baylor as a potentially great national and world class educational entity; certainly more than a Baptist Bible college. Dr. Lynn was right. If Baylor alums and administrators want a Bible college, that is what they’ll get, to their shame and embarrassment. If they want a great university founded upon Christian principles rather than a place for narrow “religious” indoctrination, they will have to put up or shut up! Doctrinaire “religionists”, who live to make symbolic gestures which do not impress God in the least, must not rule!!!

By Teen Wolf

July 24, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Finally! Lilley just never demontstrated true passion for Baylor. Can we lure Sloan back from Houston Baptist? Lilley was the wrong guy for the job; we should’ve hired one of our own (ie: Underwood, O’Brien). Now, let’s get tuition and other expenses under control so my kids can attend Baylor too!!!!

By No "B" fool

July 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Who would leave another university to come and become Baylor’s president? I mean, any fool could see the history that Baylor has and it treatment of their President. You would have to be a glutton for punishment to take the job.

By Thomas Aquinas

July 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Yes, Baylor should not be a Bible College. But it should not be a chemistry college, a physics college, an English literature college, or even a political science college. Singling out the Bible for marginalization means that you don’t think it should be taken seriously in an academic setting.

Either Christianity imparts knowledge or it doesn’t. If it does, then we should no more isolate the Bible for special segregation than we should do so for Newton, Einstein, Wilde, or Nietzsche. If Christianity contributes nothing to our understanding of the disciplines, then what is the symbolic gesture is Old Baylor and its religion-as-private-soul-competence mindless trope.

By zip

July 24, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

hjames -

talking to baylor folks and people from tx living in those areas that you mentioned do not count. Don’t exagerrate the truth - NO ONE knows about balyor outside of tx. And Im not sure what coaching circles you hang around in those other states but…that is in bizarro world!!!

And comparing baylor to boston college is ludicrous at best. I will give you baylor success in track, baseball, tennis, and womens basketball (and only in the last 5 years by the way) and mens hoops for 1 year does not count. bc competes - the word competes - in one of the toughest conferences in the ACC in all sports - hoops (men and women), football, field hockey, ice hockey, soccer, etc. baylor is at the dormat of the big 12. baylor neeed to compete in the lone star conference w/ texas state, central ark, etc - then maybe. baylor would be on equal ground.

By mom

July 24, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

I was accepted to Baylor University in 1972 and prayed diligently to attend..it was not possible but as newlyweds we moved here in 1978. In all the years since, Robert Sloan did more for Baylor than ever imaginable in such a short time frame. You people should oust your BoR and pray that God sends you a whole new crew of Sloan clones.

It is totally possible to have and educate generations of Christian students that will support their school with their PRESENCE and not just their presents. Baylor needs to remain Baylor but change to reach the students while they are here because they never come back as alumni.

By Scientist

July 24, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Get ready for the resurrection and appointment of Jerry Falwell or Oral Roberts as President of Baylor. Then we can take down that huge turtle fossil in the Mayborn, and establish once and for all that the world is only 10,000 years old. What a joke of a “science dept.” BWAAHahaha!

By Mike

July 24, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

I have to agree. Baylor is not well known outside of the Bible belt. I had never heard of it until I moved to Texas.

By from the outside

July 24, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

OK. I have deep Texas roots, but live elsewhere. BU, outside the Big Twelve states, is Boston University. And many people have not heard of Baylor. Excelling in track and field and women’s basketball doesn’t make you a household name. Sorry, it’s just he way it is.

I think Baylor should rethink the implementation of 2012. It’s obvious that the BOR passed it without much thought to what it really meant in terms of change. You can’t be a fundamentalist Bible college and a first tier major research university. John Lilley thought that he could continue the implementation of 2012 and when he showed some success, the BOR/faculty /staff didn’t like what it looked like. Unfortunately for Baylor, until it decides what it wants to be (or what the BOR thinks Baylor should be) there is no one that can lead the University. I also think that the BOR possesses way too much power at this point. Time to open the dialogue.

By zip

July 24, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

hjames-

OK…Im not keeping track of the numbers but looks like people agree with me and not you. Wave your ‘bu’ flag but no one outside tx knows what it stands for…and only notre dame wears real gold helmets!!!

By Kokernot Kook

July 24, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Lilley: Good Riddance. Never got it.

Underwood: A ship that has sailed. Part of God’s Plan?

Randall: Tainted.

Sloan: Don’t even think about it.

Wallace Daniel: Can he be talked into coming back? Have they unpacked yet? Would be awesome!

Dub Oliver: needs seasoning—but would be fanstastic. Give him five years.

Condi Rice: Presbyterian, unfortunately.

Phil Gramm: Available. Very Available.

Bottom Line: there is not a no-brainer, slam-dunk choice out there. Let’s hope God really is a Baptist. We definitely need Providence on our side.

Last Thought: Naymond Keathley for interim.

By Piece of Toast

July 24, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

I nominate Scott Drew and Kim Mulkey. The only thing harder than bringing together Baylor alumni and board members is taking a team to the NCAA’s a few years after near death penalty and/or winning a national championship.

If that can be done then this is nothing.

No to Bible College! Yes to the best Christian minds in all disciplines. We can have our Christian cake and eat it too.

By Scott Baker

July 24, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Actually, hjames is right. I came to Baylor twice: once from Washington D.C. and the other time from New York City. Baylor is known outside of Texas. It is not on the same plane as Notre Dame, but it’s not as inconsequential as some would like to pretend that it is. But that’s hardly the point. And, hjames, don’t bother responding to the haters. Folks who have made up their minds to hate Baylor typically refuse to be reasoned with. It’s a lot easier to take a blind and immovable stand than it is to investigate an issue and appreciate nuance and complexity.

As an alum, I am very saddened by these events. Without comment on my opinion of Dr. Lilley, I’m very tired of seeing Baylor dragged through all this drama. It is a great school that is constantly having its focus pulled off of educating young people.

As a Wacoan, I’m equally saddened by these events. It only adds fuel to the fire that the torch and pitchfork crowd keep burning between the school and the city. Baylor and Waco need each other and need to take a vested interest in each other’s success. I would hope that Wacoans would hope for the best for Baylor and a fast and peaceful resolution to its current struggles.

By JP

July 24, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

There are people who really want Sloan back? Seriously? He was on his way to turning Baylor into a $35,000/yr Sunday School. No thank you.

For those who say Baylor is not recognized outside of Texas, I guess we can agree to disagree. Ask any college educated individual about Baylor, and while they might not know specifics, they have heard of it. I travel all over the country for business and when asked where I went to school, when I say Baylor the response is typically ‘oh, ok, thats a great school.’

By RWS

July 24, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Poor ole Baylor. Wants to be looked upon as center of all knowledge and yet all they try to surround themselves are snobs with no common sense. Think outside the box and pick some old Joe Sixpack who knows how to mow his own lawn and work on his own car. After all, it is just a second-rate bible college no matter how you try to cut it.

By Pat Neff

July 24, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Don’t fool yourselves. Zorayda is a regent.

Speaking ill of the dead, too. Pathetic.

“Zorayda” is a prime example of everything that’s wrong with the regents today. I bet he learned the guerrilla tactics of slandering people online from his lobbyist friend. ‘Tis a pity. How’s DFW, Z? I know that’s where you live.

The regents are the real problem here. We’re letting the regents who picked the failure that is Lilley appoint a regent in Lilley’s place. Unexcusable.

By Kent

July 24, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

I’m a relatively recent migrant to Waco, having previously lived in Oregon, Washington, Alaska, Chicago, and Washington DC. And I don’t have any connection to Baylor. So this whole ongoing soap opera is really obtuse. It would be nice to read an article or see a flow-chart that lays out all different sides and issues of this conflict.

That said, as an outsider and until relatively recently, a non-Texan I will suggest that most people around the country have heard of Baylor and know that it is a Big-10 university in Texas. Beyond that, it gets fuzzy really fast.

Most non-Texans and non-Baptists probably have no idea that Baylor is a Baptist university. I didn’t. I just assumed it was some generic private university like Stanford, Cornell or Rice with no particular religious slant.

Most non-Texans probably don’t know that Baylor is in Waco. For my own part I went to the University of Washington and knew about Baylor athletics, especially track. But never gave a thought to where it was located other than somewhere in Texas. But I couldn’t have placed TCU either.

Finally, I suspect most Americans mistakenly confuse Baylor Medicine with Baylor Univ. I know friends and family from elsewhere in the US who think they know of Baylor because it has a famous med school. They are surprised to learn that there is no connection.

In any event, Baylor is what it is. I doubt it’s national stature will ever change very much from the present unless Baylor finds a way to explode onto the national scene as an academic powerhouse or an athletic powerhouse. I don’t see either of those to happening anytime soon. Because the competition isn’t standing still either. Baylor will never have the stature or money to compete with the Stanfords, Harvards, and Dukes of the world. The rich schools like those just keep getting richer. Likewise, Baylor is simply never going to dominate the Big-12 in football. Baylor may have a cinderella year every couple decades. But climbing to the top of the Big-12 and getting into a BCS game on a regular basis? Not ever going to happen. Baylor just doesn’t have the stage to offer the top national recruits that it would need to play at that level.

By RWS

July 24, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Poor ole Baylor. Wants to be looked upon as center of all knowledge and yet all they try to surround themselves are snobs with no common sense. Think outside the box and pick some old Joe Sixpack who knows how to mow his own lawn and work on his own car. After all, it is just a second-rate bible college no matter how you try to cut it.

By Pat Neff

July 24, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Don’t fool yourselves. Zorayda is a regent.

Speaking ill of the dead, too. Pathetic.

“Zorayda” is a prime example of everything that’s wrong with the regents today. I bet he learned the guerrilla tactics of slandering people online from his lobbyist friend. ‘Tis a pity. How’s DFW, Z? I know that’s where you live.

The regents are the real problem here. We’re letting the regents who picked the failure that is Lilley appoint a regent in Lilley’s place. Unexcusable.

By Kent

July 24, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Oh, and by the way. Baylor needs to drop the BU thing.

Stanford is not SU Rice is not RU Duke is not DU Harvard is not HU Princeton is not PU Vanderbilt is not VU

As for future presidents? I think Bob Gates is likely to be available in January 09. He did wonders at A&M.

By E.P.

July 24, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

After earning my degree from Baylor in my mid-40s, I feel I have a better insight on the Baylor faculty than the ‘traditional student.’ And they shouldn’t have so much influence with the Regents. Baylor needs a president to keep them in line. As far as the Regents are concerned; they’re rich, egotistical, premadonnas.

I knew Dr. Sloan and liked him very much. I knew Herb Reynolds, he gave me a scholarship, and I liked him very much, and I knew Abner and loved that guy. They were all great men and great presidents. Baylor is just like our country, we’ve run out of good presidents.

In my family we have 5 Baylor graduates, including my wife, daughter, and me. I will encourge my daugter to send my grandson to anywhere but Baylor.

By hjames

July 24, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Zip

We were talking about BU’s, were we not? BU/Boston University is not in the ACC..that is Boston College, a BC, not a BU, old son…and until recently BC was in the Big East….Get your BU’s straight…And I have not only lived in the bizarro world of coaches, thank you..i have also lived in the bizarro world of state and national politics, business and other bizarro worlds..and in Europe, South America, Mexico, Canada, SE Asia, among other places…what non bizarro worlds have you lived in?…and where have you lived outside Texas that gives you all this knowledge about who outside Texas knows what and who doesn’t know what? Or do you get all you know from tv? You seem typical of so many who give way too much emphasis to what they say…too many people believe that if they think it, it must be right…such idiots are those who worship at the alter of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Dr. Dobson, Sean Hannity, et al., I hope you are not of that anti thought ilk…it sounds as if you might be…and I will compare my little old degrees and world experience with your’s any day, bubba… and how many national champioships has BC or Boston University won lately in sports that most schools in the USA play? How many schools play lacrosse, hockey, field hockey, etc., at the NCAA level…not that many, bubba…

As for Prof. Aquinas, I want Baylor to have the broadest possible academic/athletic spectrum….that includes philospohy, politics, engineering, math-science, research, the arts, all of it…and all sports…but I don’t want Baylor to be a place of rigid religionist indoctrination..I want Baylor to be a place of of broad based thought, debate, doubt, questioning, the whole gamut..and that includes religious investigation, research and study in all the disciplines covered in THE GREAT BOOKS OF THE WESTERN WORLD…..Intellectual arrogance, as Edith Hamilton (SPOKESMEN FOR GOD) said, is the “end of knowledge”….those who think they know it all, the doctrinaire dogmatists don’t want to expand thought,..only want to stifle it…and that is what happens at a religionist, denominational Bible college…and there are plenty of those fanatic, intolerant religionists around..in Moslem nations, reactionary Christian nations with their state churches, fanatic Jews like those who assassinated the peacemaker, Yitzak Rabin, etc….By all means include the Bible, the Torah, Quoran…I advocate at Baylor and all places of higher learning the study of all areas of thought and knowledge..comparative religion, comparative economics, comparative government forms, comparative study of all things but with open heads, not arrogant, narrow scoped agendas intended to control rather than illuminate minds and peoples…Read THE REVOLT OF THE MASSES by Jose Ortega y Gassett before you want the rigid mindless mass mentality to rule….check out C. Wright Mills (WHITE COLLAR & THE POWER ELITE)….look at thought, knowledge and presumed truth from all perspectives before closing the procees of learning at death….and, again, I include the Bible and all religious books…that is why God game humans the capacity to reason and investigate and seek to know…and it would be a slap in His face if we didn’t use that capacity to the limit each of us might have….and that is why we have universities…Baylor needs to aspire to those aims in all areas….Baptist zealots don’t want that…thoughtful Baptists do want that…I am not a Baptist…I am a Presbyterian who happened to go to graduate school at Baylor after going to a Presbyterian undergrad school…and then I went to what could be called a once Methodist controlled grad school after Baylor….not in Texas…

Baylor will not ever be Harvard or Yale or MIT..no other schools, not even Boston University or Boston College will be either..neither will UT or TAMU or TT or OU or OSU or UC or UK or UN or KSU or UM or ISU..all of those, like Baylor, can only try to be the best they can be..and all the negative crap spewed by little minds on this blog won’t make any positive impact…so why waste your time spewing negative crap?

By 91Bear

July 24, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

“BU, outside the Big Twelve states, is Boston University. And many people have not heard of Baylor. Excelling in track and field and women’s basketball doesn’t make you a household name. Sorry, it’s just he way it is.”

So, how is it that Boston University who has no football team is supposedly so well known? They compete in basketball, cross country, golf, ice hockey, rowing, soccer, swimming, tennis, track, and wrestling. Woo hoo. Of those, basketball is the biggest sport and Baylor has been way more successful than Boston.

You contradict yourself, I think.

By Tex123

July 24, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

The Duke football helment only has the letter ‘D’. Georgia Tech has ‘GT’, Virginia Tech has ‘VT’, North Carolina has ‘NC’, Wake Forest has ‘WF’. Baylor’s BU is fine, a good tradition. When the ‘BU’ is seen, it is usually in some context (such as television) that doesn’t take rocket science to determine that it signifies Baylor University.

By NCAlumnusbyChoice

July 24, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

Baylor and its leadership are completely trapped by and isolated within their Texas Babdiss bubble. The rest of the world, even the evangelical world, has passed them by, and they don’t even know it. It’s not that people think badly of Baylor; it’s that they never think of Baylor at all. And now Baylor has the reputation of being the crummy NFL team that keeps firing its coach because he can’t win.

By L.Young

July 24, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

So apart from a lot of the anemic baptist weenie waving going on in this blog, is there anyone who KNOWS what the divergences between the president and the board were? What the board wanted the president to do that he was not fulfilling—not just a generality about his arrogance. How the board is holding the university back—not just that they’re rich, out-of-touch ego-maniacs. Does anyone know?

By Fred

July 24, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

And now the good Christians at Baylor University are hating and pi$$ing on one another once again. Now that’s quite a Christian example for Waco. Grap a bag of popcorn and enjoy the entertainment.

By JPN

July 24, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Well, I have one observation. BU is run by 10 year olds. When the powers to be bring in someone to drag them out of the lime light and into the shadows so the said “leaders” of Baylor, the ‘regents’ can sneak around and play their games and not be responsible.

Well, I guess the blame needs to be placed on some poor soul they find to replace Lilley. I hope when he/she signs the contract, that they insert a clause into it, on page one I hope, that allows him/her to dispense ‘colporal’ punishment to the ‘regents’.

In the USMC we had a chain of command that was followed. If the leadership broke down, the ‘crap’ flowed down to the bottom, and the poor soul there would drown in it. The poor souls in this matter are the students. Although the majority are self sustaining in moneys’, they suffer the most.

If the ‘regents’ are so concerned about the school, what is so hard about finding the right person to function with the ‘regents’ in taking the school into the future? It seems that all the ‘regents’ have done are to find people that will give lip service to the school, and copulate with the ‘regents’.

Ok guys, lets get going, find someone that is willing to roll around in the mud. Let us also insist the ‘regents’ roll with them in the muck. In simple terms, stop the insouciant practice of what all the leadership does with their heads in the ground. This stuff flows thicker then dung down through rangs, and spills onto the kids, the residents, the teachers (professor’s)- are they not suppose to teach, not worry about what kind of dung is coming down the chute? And last, the very image of BU is covered with this muck.

Ok, lets pull our heads out, and learn to be a team again. I’ll take the job for a year, at one 10th of the salary, and do a better job than what has been done.

JPN

By Bruce

July 24, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

Baylor can achieve the 2012 Vision to enter into the top tier of America’s universities. One only has to look at the success achieved in programs like Engineering, HHPR, and athletics over the last few years. However, Baylor will never achieve this goal until faculty stop bickering about whether they should be trying to achieve national distinction (as a supposedly Christian university “in the Baptist” tradition) and it hires a top tier administration (Provost, Dean’s, Chairs). The BOR should then leave them alone to do their jobs.

The Lilley administration alienated all constituencies (students, faculty, alumni, donors). A number of nationally prominent faculty who came to Baylor to help it attain national distinction have recently left. This is not because Baylor could not become a world class university or an unattainable vision but because of poor administrative decisions and mismanagement. The BOR had no choice as the situation was terrible and only getting worse.

My hope is that the BOR will hire an experienced top-tier level President who will clean house and get rid of the mediocre Dean’s and Chair’s that the Lilley administration recently hired. While Sloan was highly criticized, he brought significant growth and attracted a number of highly competent professors. He was also prophetic in the view that if you invested in facilities, niche programs, and talented faculty, that Baylor would grow beyond imagination. Maybe it’s time to bring back Dr. Sloan.

Of course, the other option is to bring back the old guard and go back to the day when Baylor was a nice sized-undergraduate school that had little national recognition. A day when faculty members taught 4-5 classes a semester and research was encouraged but not expected. Then, UMHB and other small “Baptist” schools can pass it by.

By Fink

July 24, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

I second the Herb notion, and Pat Neff for that matter. And what about Brooks? Baylor’s reputation and general livability peaked with Herb, or perhaps with Sloan’s first public dance before he really had time to mess up the gains of the past. I for one don’t appreciate Sloan’s folly of putting Baylor into debt just so he can have fancy athletic facilities years before he spent a dime on academic facilities. Where is the good gossip? I want to know what the heck is going on here, and which faction just pulled ahead… Which faction just pulled ahead?!

By Staffer

July 24, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Believe me, the bottom of the muck heap ladder is the Baylor staff. Faculty got their ombudsman…staff, not. (did that make the paper? no.). Cost of living raises? Nope. An HR department that truly represents them? No. Do they care what happens to us? No…if someone quits out of total frustration, no problem…just find another sucker to take their place. Lilley just continued that tradition. To us, the bickering of the BOR is just one of many frustrations and barriers to a good work environment.

My advice to anyone thinking of applying to work at Baylor…don’t. For a Christian institution - for ANY institution, - it treats its employees like second-rate citizens.

By Joe Perino

July 24, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

I was unfortunate enough To have ran into Lilley as a student in the Penn State system. Lilley ran a very corrupt administration that discriminated against and singled out students from a poor economic background. He used the university police as his personal “Gestapo” to have students arrested on bogus charges. The man is evil. There is not anything good about him. He then went to Reno to ruin the administration there, but he got over confident and went after people that had money and could defend themselves. He ran UNR into the ground and they are still defending tons of lawsuits from when Lilley was there. UNR HAS SPENT OVER 1.7 MILLION DOLLARS Just ON OUTSIDE LAWYERS WHEN THEY HAVE 8 IN HOUSE ATTORNEYS TRYING TO COVER UP lILLEY’s corruption and harassment of people. He had a swastika painted on a professor’s door. Lilley is nothing more than an arrogant, ignorant, bigot. As for him being any type of minister he is a disgrace and an insult to any religion and he will burn in hell for using being a minister to cover up his corruption and harassment of innocent people. I do not judge, I’ll leave that to God.

By bear78

July 24, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Now is the time to hire a president who is a scholar and administrator from a school with the credibility and stature that Baylor aspires to. No more preacher types with Baylor ties, please, or one from a second rate school! Let’s hire a true professional!

Regents, faculty and alumni association: Grow up! Enough of the public squabbling, whining and meeting leaks to the Trib, which is always eager to stir up trouble at Baylor. You’re destroying the reputation of the school.

Waco citizens and Baylor alumni: Get acquainted with the real world. Baylor is no more expensive than its competition in Dallas, Fort Worth, Georgetown and elsewhere in the country. Every school (or business) worth its salt aspires to great things-why shouldn’t Baylor be the pre-eminent Christian school in the world? If only the Baptists would get out of the way!

In many ways, Baylor is like A&M-unique mission and atmosphere with a very distinct, passionate following. But the fanatics keep things in constant uproar, which undermines their many good qualities and reputations.

By JJ

July 24, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Lilley was hired as president at the University of Nevada while I was an undergraduate there. He quickly alienated most of the faculty and community, was loathed by students and student groups, implemented a number of divisive policies and made himself as inaccessible as possible.

Best of luck with whomever your new president is… BU can’t possibly do worse.

By CW

July 24, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

It’s time for the Committee To Restore Integrity to come back to life..but this time please be more organized and have a stronger message and better public image.

By JJ

July 24, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Lilley was hired as president at the University of Nevada while I was an undergraduate there. He quickly alienated most of the faculty and community, was loathed by students and student groups, implemented a number of divisive policies and made himself as inaccessible as possible.

Best of luck with whomever your new president is… BU can’t possibly do worse.

By No Gays

July 24, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

Dub Oliver?

Baylor is clearly not ready for its first gay President.

By bear78

July 24, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

CW: CRIB is composed of most of the fanatics that I was talking about! And the BAA aided and abetted them. I’ve never seen an alumni association try to be so involved in the management of a university. Plus they wanted university funding to do it-please! It’s time for the Reynolds and McCall families to fade away (and I’m not in the Sloan faction, either.) _

By BU prof

July 25, 2008 12:05 AM | Link to this

As someone who was hired during the failed Sloan administration (talking Christian ain’t the same thing as acting Christian), Lilley was a disaster. In two years, he alienated the Regents, the faculty AND the alumni. Remember those articles from of U. of Nevada-Reno as he was hired at Baylor? The faculty voted 389 to 28 to get rid of him. What kind of idiots hire a man like that? The Baylor faculty — of whom I am one — would vote 90% to 10% to bring back Underwood, who has done a helluva job at Mercer. Heck, we’d vote to 70-30 to bring back Herb’s zombie after Sloan and Lilley. The problem is the Board of Regents, small-minded white males, preachers and (in one case) someone without even a college degree … making ideological decisions about the future of a Top 100 university. Unbelievable. Jesus, deliver your children from ideologues. And Dub Oliver.

By Barbara Barrier

July 27, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

As an alumna of Baylor of more than 50 years, I’ve seen presidents come and go. Some were good, others were great.

However, the last two have left a lot to be desired. I never felt either of them really cared about Baylor and her values - only about increasing the size of the campus at great expense and harrassing the faculty.

I can only pray the BOR will carefully consider what Baylor’s goals as a great Baptist University should be and then hire a president who will help her attain those goals.

By Cynthia Peterson

July 28, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

I always thought Lilley was the puppet the Regents chose because they could be the puppetmasters. The regents continue to go beyond the bounds of what they are supposed to do and this is just one more indication. They are the major problem of Baylor University - no organization can be micromanaged by committee and continue to grow and thrive - but perhaps that’s exactly what they want - to destroy Baylor.

By Big Brother

July 28, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Ahhhh to see the Baylor fighting go on and on. If I could only hear you BOO each other as you write your blogs.

But Be Careful. If you disagree with ” hjames ” he will threaten you with bodily harm.

My good Baylor people, consider the lilly of the fields….lets get together at Scruffy Murphys and do some shots, hold hands, sing the that good ol’ sissy line…and urinate on the floor.

I love you Baylor People.