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Is God of love also a God of Judgment?
Last week Fred stated in one of our blogs: “Don’t terrify children with (Hell and Damn-nation) religious teaching. Teach God’s love….not judgment. Simply teach them right and wrong.” DKF added: “First and foremost, God is love, and that is what Jesus always preached. “For God so loved the world”, “love the Lord your God, love thy neighbor”, etc. No one should be terrified of God. Just love him and respect His judgment. He is Truth.”
It seems as though people today want to talk about God’s love, peace, joy, and blessings but do not want to know the other side of God- the God who judges us according to the principles of his word. If I remember correctly, God said: “I lay before you life and death, blessings and a curse- CHOOSE LIFE! This principle would lead one to believe that God indeed will stand in judgment of our choices according to this principle stated in his word. The bible also teaches us that we should: “train up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old, they will not depart from it.” Would we fail in our training if we were to teach children that God was a God of love, without ever teaching that child that there is another side to God? Even the Apostle Paul said: “Since grace abounds-should sin abound more? GOD FORBID! Not to be left out, even Jesus stood in judgment of the Pharisees when he called them: “cups that were clean on the outside, but dirty on the inside”. That sounds to me like he judged their christianity!
So, let’s have some lively discussion! What do you fellow bloggers think? Should we teach the entire word and not just the parts we like to our children when they are of appropriate age? If not, why not? If so, what would be the appropriate age?
Comments
By KDF
April 22, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
There was a minister on television that was being interviewed. It was about a week ago, and I can’t recall the show. Take my word for what I will write, at least it is closely paraphrased.
The minister was asked about sin and conviction. As he spoke, he mentioned a Pastor down in Houston that preached sermons so that when folks left the service they felt uplifted and strong (nothing wrong with that). He was a prosperity preacher (problem here though).
The minister being interviewd then said we should be happy knowing we are saved by grace, by the glory of Jesus Christ, but never forget what Jesus did to attain the glory, and that we should always remember we are still convicted of sin every day and don’t forget that. We are guilty, but freed through Christ.
Should children be taught parts of the Word or only pieces of the Word? The Bible is written for everyone, of all ages. If they can get on-line and view the darkness it gives — completely gives — they should be able to read the “Light” that our Lord gives. I can’t think of anything in the Bible that children’s ears should not hear. And Jesus told us in Matthew 12:3, “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Thanks, Pastor Joe. <><
By cantw82leave
April 22, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
This topic is exactly what finally drove me away from Christianity so I will apologize in advance to those of you who will accuse me of being harsh. The duality in Christianity is both confusing and convoluted. On the one hand “God is love” and Jesus ‘suffered the little children’ but on the other God is a stern tyrant who demands fealty; one who will “trouble those who trouble you” and who will mete out justice and wrath. I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. 2000 years ago Christianity was used to convert the masses in order to further a political agenda (much like some are trying to use it today..hmmm, yet another blog topic?) Those who could not be willingly drawn in by a message of peace, love and salvation were threatened with the other option…a fiery death. Christianity really offers no other avenues. When faced with the option of conversion or extermination, the survival instinct will undoubtedly kick in. I made a conscious choice to no longer consider myself a ‘sinner’, that I am somehow ‘unworthy’ or that I should spend a lifetime begging forgiveness for something the establishment tells me I did. Instead, I chose a path that teaches that I am a unique, inherent spark of the Divine, just as all living things are. We are all connected, yes, even to God(dess), Yahweh, Jehovah, Shiva, the Great Spirit, Mother Goddess, the Divine,each other, nature, and whatever else you want to call it. We are not unworthy but instead are fortunate to have our place in the here and now to love one another, and our planet and make it a better place. What comes next is a mystery to me (one I am perfectly at peace with) but I will assure you I do not believe it is material gain, intrinsic value or jeweled headwear. I believe in prosperity and abundance, and I believe they are positive things. For those of you who have a problem with it, I would say you are doing exactly what the original establishemnt wanted you to do, which is keep you a peasant to till the fields and fill the coffers. Some think that there is some value or benefit to your ‘noble suffering’ for your cause or belief, well, good news, there is. It’s called martyrdom, so good luck with that. So please, teach your children both sides of the Christian coin, by all means. Teach them that ‘God is love’ and Jesus wanted them to be good samaritans. Teach them to ‘love thy neighbor’, then confuse the heck out of them and tell them they are ‘sinners’ and that it ‘…is easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 19:24 KJV…see I can quote scripture too.) Teach them that God will mete out judgement, justice and wrath in all sorts of fiery, painful forms. Then, if they choose, let them seek out their own path, let them find their own truth, and let them find their own peace.
By Pastor Joe A. Carbajal
April 22, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Ephesians 1:6-13 (The Message)
3-6How blessed is God! And what a blessing he is! He’s the Father of our Master, Jesus Christ, and takes us to the high places of blessing in him. Long before he laid down earth’s foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love. Long, long ago he decided to adopt us into his family through Jesus Christ. (What pleasure he took in planning this!) He wanted us to enter into the celebration of his lavish gift-giving by the hand of his beloved Son. 7-10Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we’re a free people—free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds. And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free! He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.
11-12It’s in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone.
13-14It’s in Christ that you, once you heard the truth and believed it (this Message of your salvation), found yourselves home free—signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit. This signet from God is the first installment on what’s coming, a reminder that we’ll get everything God has planned for us, a praising and glorious life.
This is God’s plan for us from the foundations of the earth!
By KDF
April 22, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
Please read and absorb the following. Thanks.
God is love, and I have witnessed no fiery deaths (except the compound) for believing in Christianity in the US. And yes, there are martyrs in the world who have died with faith in Jesus Christ, and never relinqueshed that faith, because of love of God, not fear of God. I don’t know if I would last 5 minutes of torture…I would pray that the Holy Spirit would give me the strength I need. If not, God will still receive me.
As to converting the masses…what masses? There were several folks roaming that area in the time of Jesus that claimed they were the messiah. They would attract a following, then disburse. Jesus did not address any political mass, and the political people that heard him did not believe anyway. Instead, apostles and disciples put their life on the line and followed the commandment of Jesus to make followers of all nations. And these newer followers were of very modest means. Most died a horrible death for their beliefs.
If you have a Bible, look up 2 Corinthians 16-33 and read the sufferings of Paul. This was common to the followers of the Word. And all but John were killed in horrible fashions for spreading the word they believed in.
Finally, where do non or ex Christians obtain their beliefs? Is there a book out there I am not aware of, or do they just pick and choose what makes them feel good? I honestly don’t understand. <><
By GJ
April 22, 2008 7:07 PM | Link to this
KDF, Christians “pick and choose” what they want to believe from the Bible - hence all the denominations. The Bible has no problem with the existence of slavery. Modern Christians have chosen to ignore that part of the Bible. The God of the Old Testament is violent, jealous, petty, genocidal and misogynistic. Christians choose to ignore the fact that he is is same God they worship today. O yeah, the “new covenant”. It is still the same God.
You do not need a book to do the right thing. Think for yourself and have love in your heart.
By KDF
April 22, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this
GJ, as for your comment on slavery, please read my blog entry from a few subjects ago. People have used scripture to justify modern day slavery, but research futher and you will see that Paul tells slaves to free themselves if possible. I’m not calling you ignorant, but if you are going to draw a conclusion, please complete your research on the Bible.
And the post-modernism thinking that you have is destructive to society. It’s the I’m okay you’re okay school of thought. Also, why are your blogs so angry sounding? I’m not being a smart-aleck; I am serious. <><
By cantw82leave
April 22, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
There are those who would say that Paul took it upon himself to spread a gospel that was considerably different from the one Jesus Christ taught when he was alive. Paul is the foundation of the Roman Catholic Church and a hater of women, I’m not much interested in his sufferings, or his teachings.
As for “converting the masses”, we are not discussing Christ, the statement refers to the actions taken by the Roman Catholic Church 300 years after Christ died. By then the original message had been all but destroyed and the Church was able to use it’s “new” message to convert the masses in Europe. For the next 1700 years the Church managed to control an entire continent by controlling the population. Don’t believe me?? Read a history book. Some Christians don’t seem to understand that much of their belief system still draws from the edits and abridgements originally made by the Roman Catholic Church. Is it possible that modern Christians are only perpetuating lies from lies? And why is GJ accused of being ‘so angry sounding’..I don’t think he (or she) sounds angry at all. I think GJ makes some excellent points that when they cannot be argued intelligently or politely, Christians always revert to excuses for behavior. I don’t think GJ is angry, apparently GJ can think independently. Don’t let it scare you, it’s really quite nice. I don’t mean to sound so cynical but it seemed to be getting a bit testy in here.
By GJ
April 23, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this
Thanks, cantw82leave! I do understand their defensiveness. You know you’ve hit a nerve when they call you “angry” or say “that’s why they call it faith”.
I am a very happy man (or woman. Ha!). It’s actually funny to be called “angry” - in the real world my reputation is quite the opposite.