Bible Talk

By KDF

April 8, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Hmm. I really don’t know about this “Chopra” guy; maybe I should. In your blog, Pastor, he seems a little on the loopy side, and I have come to trust you with your faith.

I quoted C.S. Lewis (well, almost) a couple of blogs ago. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, our Messiah, or a great liar. There is no doubt.

The historosity(?) of Jesus and his life is fact. The contemporary historian in Jesus’ life, Josephus even wrote about him, his miracles and so forth. Sceptics believe that many in the Bible are not even believed to have existed, although histories about others are regarded as truth, even those people who were alive hundreds of years before Jesus. I have read that Sheakspere’s writings have been perverted through the years, yet the Bible is the most closely translated book ever.

The chapter of Luke 24 shows that Jesus proved who he is, in both mind and body. He ate fish, had Thomas touch his scars, then blessed them and ascended into the Heavens.

Jesus Christ is exactly who He says He is, and Pastor that joy you speak of will never leave me!!! “Amen, come Lord Jesus.” <><

By :)

April 8, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

peyote, haha! You know that court case too huh?

:)

By Jeff

April 9, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

The thinking that Jesus is God of all, but will change His teachings to cater to everyone’s culture is kind of a prevalent way of thinking, yet naive. The following link will lead fellow bloggers to a sermon series that will hopefully educate us on why the Bible and other religions cannot be one in the same; hence God is God of all, but not by other means. Go to www.therocksandiego.org Click on Stuff Click on Message Archive Click on 2005 August 7, 2005 - September 25, 2005 lays out a consecutive series designed to show that Christianity and the other religions do not mix. You can choose one or the other, but do not think ignorantly that they all intermingle. Please, involve education, not prevalent thinking in the decision process.

By P.J.

April 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

I couldnt agree with you more. Your writing is very relevent and understandable. Our relationship with Jesus has to be real in oeder for us to truly understand His purpose and love for His people. If not, then all of our work and vision is just produced form an odd state of “mind” or “dillusion”. I dont think so!!

By Fred

April 9, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Jesus is not a state of mind. But Bellmead? Bellmead is definately a…..state of mind.

By GJ

April 9, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Ah, C.S Lewis’s “lunatic, liar or Lord” theory. As if there were only those 3 possibilities. I can think of at least a few more. I’ll head to Bellmead and ponder.

By KDF

April 9, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so….

Jesus indeed does love us; you, me, those past and those to come. Jesus Christ is my best friend. I do not know everyone’s background in this blog, nor do you know mine. We all have computers to blog on, food to eat, water to drink, a place to sleep. You and me are not poor people — if you have a computer think of your blessings of only that. Unless we hang out at the library, none of us is poor. That is why Jesus stated in Matthew 23:24 “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

By Chad Hall

April 10, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

Although I do not necessarily agree with Chopra’s overall views, I do believe that whether or not you view Jesus as our savior, no one can deny the fact that His teachings are simply “good” ways to live by. If we attach His teaching of simply how to live (not the religious aspects) to another name, that particular man very well might be considered a wise universal teacher. But don’t worry, I love Jesus.

By Katelin

April 10, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

We have to believe that Jesus Christ was a man otherwise there’s no point in having a relationship with God. Jesus had to have been sent to die as the atonment for our sins if He is just a state of mind then we are all condemned for eternity. I choose to believe He was actually a man and died for my sins otherwise I will be hopeless.

By :)

April 11, 2008 12:28 AM | Link to this

Chad: I believe everything you are saying, and I know your a believer. Its important though that we Christians are careful to not givethe impression to many that don’t believe in Him that the principles alone cannot get us there and to make it clear that the relationship in itself is what brings life. I know you know this and I am not debating what you said. I just wanted to say this for others that feel that way.

By cantw82leave

April 11, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Many of these comments once again reinforce what many of us x-believers have to say about Christianity in this nation having its head stuck in the sand. Seriously…you do not know who Deepak Chopra is????? Is this some kind of joke? It’s difficult to believe that in this day and time, someone cannot at least have heard of Dr. Chopra (even in Waco).
Once again we find ourselves at the center of a debate regarding spirituality. Christians believe there is only one way (theirs) and everyone else is bound for hell. I will note in response to Katelin that I wholeheartedly agree that Jesus Christ was a man… and ONLY a man. He was/is not a deity, not a God (to me). His teachings were controversial for his time and he was considered by some to be a heretic. I am not here to point out to any of you the fallacies of your belief system, but I am disturbed by your ignorance (as in lack of knowledge) and your refusal to acknowledge any other beliefs or spirituality. Christians are taught to disavow and de-value anyone who does not share their belief system. This is a sad commentary on Christian beliefs and does nothing to detract from the perception of Christians as narrow-minded tyrants. Non-Christians can honor the teachings of Christ and be respectful of them and still not believe that JC was in any way, shape or form a God or a direct path to Christian salvation. Christians, on the other hand, take this as a personal affront and attempt to use it as an opportunity to proselytise their beliefs. I am not attempting to be disrespectful when I deny Christianity’s perceptions of it’s deity, no more than I am asking to be converted. In fact, it is quite the opposite. I am happy to point out that the NT has many positive lessons, and that JC was an important historical figure. I understand that the words and lessons of Christ have given hope and comfort to generations of people. When I say these things, I am uplifting the teachings, not dis-honoring them, we simply have a difference of opinion when it comes to the god-hood of Christ and the concept of salvation. I would love to see Christians in this nation stop trying to cram their religion down the throat of others and instead take a more peaceful, thoughtful approach to other beliefs. Instead of immediately attacking something that is not understood (“…was he dropped on his head?… “…doing peyote..”) why not take some time to read, listen and learn? This kind of attack is inflammatory, accusatory and offensive, not to mention completely unfounded. It is simply an ugly attack. This type of accusation under any other circumstances (race or politics for example) would be criticized as un-American behavior, and yet because Christians wave the banner of religion, it is perfectly acceptable to them to attack what they do not understand. Has anyone ever read any of Dr. Chopra’s work? I would imagine not, and yet, it is acceptable to devalue what has not even been to attempted to be comprehended. Sorry, but it makes me glad I’m not in your club.

By KDF

April 11, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

I am no expert on any religion, including Christianity. I was amost a teenager when the Great Maharishi was influencing the Beatles. I studied on Buddha as on Islam and many others. I usually choose Biblical writings as some choose other writers that follow their beliefs. If anyone wishes, I will quote Darwinsim to them, or other writers and other philosiphers. I have studied almost as much on religion as many folks. I am reading on Dr. Chopra now that I have heard his name. Am I a closed door? No, sir, “but nothing separates me from the love of Christ”.

Do some pastors and others lead poorly — YES. It is due to “free will” that some fall, but as Proverbs 24:16 guarantees, “he will rise again.”

Perfection in my life is far from holy, so I give it to God. Jesus Christ has shown me where all I ever needed to say “show me, Jesus. Forgive me”.

By :)

April 11, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

cantw82leave: You are so full of yourself, I’m nit even going to comment on you.

By Pastor Joe A. Carbajal

April 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

cantw82leave

So glad you’re back-we haven’t heard from you all week so I thought maybe you had stopped tuning in? I really am glad to know you still are with us. As far being inflammatory in my blog, please forgive me if you thought I was being hateful. Actually, the Peyote comment I inserted was because of a reference in the article that he had studied Indian medicine as he searched for other ways to healing. The “dropped on his head” comment as well as the Peyote comment was intended by me as being a cute, funny way to explain such a ridiculous thought of Jesus being a state of mind. I thought folks would laugh, then go on and comment their thoughts. I thought most who read the article would somehow see it as I did, that this idea by Chopra was a good way of selling his new book- not as actual new way to God.

By cantw82leave

April 11, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Pastor Carbajal: thank you for the welcome-back. I missed you too! Since I haven’t read Dr. Chopra’s newest book, I’m not going to comment on what he potentially means by his title, and of course it’s a hook to catch interest, which it has done. However, I stand by my statement that perhaps the work should be investigated before judgement is passed. It goes back to that spirituality discussion and the fact that while all of us are spiritual beings, we do not worship or practice the same way. I do not believe one way is any better than another. Oh, and :)…come on, I double dog dare ‘ya! -smile-

By :)

April 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

cantw82leave: Oh, you know I want to, LOL! I’m known to state my opinion on here, lol! Maybe later.

By KDF

April 11, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Good day everyone!!!

I took some time and read on Dr Chopra and his friend Dr Simon. I read from Dr Chopra’s homepage, so I did not read anything contradictory to his views. Seems like a nice guy, but spiritually we are do not agree.

Anyway, nice gentleman.

By KDF

April 11, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

My comment is not to point fingers, but :) made a observation about what I understand about non-Christians who follow other spiritual ways.

Daily I give Jesus Christ my burdens to carry because I can’t do it on my own, and most of those who say they can are very frustrated sounding people. The weight is so heavy. It is as if they carry a load too heavy to bear but are proud to say that it is their load to carry. It is transferring the impossible to the possible.

A great relief is to hear Jesus say in Matthew 11:30 “My yoke is easy and my burden is light. I give my cares to him, to the best of my ability each day. I am free. <><

By Fred

April 12, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Remember the song by Billy Joel, “New York State of Mind”? Well……I’m in a Bellmead state of mind. Think about it.

By KDF

April 12, 2008 10:41 PM | Link to this

Hey guys. What is the definition of an “x-believer”?? I’ve seen it a couple of times in this blog. Thanks.

By Jeff

April 12, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

cantw82leave I’m so glad you post. It keeps me sharp in apologetics. I want to know the answers to what you ask and the rebuttals to what you charge.

If you can read “heavy” books, I’d reccommend Darwin’s Black Box. I forgot who it’s by, but he’s a professor at Lehigh U. Basically, he uses Darwin’s own teachings, coupled with microbiology to show how macroevolution (cross-species/survival of the fittest/no point to existence, etc.) is disproved by a combo. of Darwin’s own beliefs with scientific evidence.

The reason for the suggestion is that many Atheists/”x-believers” associate their movement away from God with Darwinism. Also, don’t forget to see Expelled (I really have nothing to do with the movie) because many high ranking Atheists state this same principle.

Please, keep the comments coming, but please do it a little less vindictively. We are not trying to convict you, but provide you with facts, which you have claimed we do not have.

By KDF

April 13, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jeff. What makes this blog fun is the input it receives. The enjoyment is the debating we have. If you receive Christ as your savior, it won’t be my words that do it, or anyone elses. The Holy Spirit can guide all of us to that decision when we make it, and we discover (rediscover) out love for Jesus. <><

By GJ

April 13, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

I find in interesting that those who deny natural selection are - almost in their entirety - religious. Is it because they “know” their faith is correct, so all facts must point to the same “truth”?

I am not a scientist, but I know science is about questioning and challenging. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. It scares me that many are happy to raise their children to think that science is a lie as the rest of the world continues to move ahead of us in science and math.

I am an ex-Christian, but not because of natural selection. I found the concepts to be preposterous, contradictory, and - literally - unbelievable.

By KDF

April 13, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

I looked up and read on Dr. Chopra — his own webpage because I am always curious. Many of us find our faith by research, which Lord knows, I did throughout the years.

If you do not believe in Christ, that is your decision. But please look up the athiest turned Christian Lee Strobel and read his view of science which verifies that the “proof” of Christianity is there if you look for it. It convinced him, believe me. <><

By GJ

April 13, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Hi KDF. I did look up Strobel on his own website and on Wikipedia. Wikipedia said about “Case for the Creator” that “Critics of this book accuse it of bias, which they assert is contrary to the book’s own claims of being neutral and scientifically rigorous. Paul Dorland complained that Strobel portrays himself as a skeptic who would ensure a balanced perspective on the issue, but no scientists who oppose Intelligent Design were interviewed in the book and that the book claims to investigate scientific evidence for a creator, but most of the interviewees have their doctorates in philosophy or theology, rather than science.”

I haven’t read his work, but if true, that is shameful.

We can quote books and “proofs” back and forth all day and get nowhere. You love the Bible. I have read it, and don’t find it credible. We can agree to disagree.

I have recommended “Misquoting Jesus” by Bart Ehrman to my Christian fiends, and not to convince them I’m right. It is a clear description of what we do and don’t know about the evolution (so to speak) of the Bible. I really think you’d like it.

By cantw82leave

April 13, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

To all: Thank you for the suggestions of so many great books to read, I am always anxious to expand my information base!
Jeff: Thank you, and I will work on my ‘kinder-gentler’ side. :) Definition of “X-believer” (for me): someone brought up in a Christian home or who spent a part of their adult life identifying w/ Christianity but who no longer believes (for whatever reason) in the Christian concept of “salvation through Jesus Christ”. Said x-believer is not without spirituality but chooses to express it in different forms or can be atheistic.

By Fred

April 13, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

“And then, the un-clean one fell like a flaming star into the firey pit of Bellmead; made for the Devil and his angels.”

By KDF

April 13, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

GJ, as with most studies, detracters will always exist. That is just how it is in this world of God. I read on Dr Chopa’s website because I wanted an unbiased opinion on him. I have not read any more on him other than that. As in war, many are against it, many for it. For me, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God is what convinced me because my heart was open. My belief is between me and Him. There are good and “bad” Christians so to speak. That is why I needed Jesus Christ to convince me. We are all guilty of sin, but the joy of Christ releases that.

Heaven is my goal. My next goal is to have as many people there with me as possible. My love is not hoarded, it is meant to be spread as Paul spread the Gospel. Thanks. <><

By cantw82leave

April 13, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

In response to GJ and the topic of ‘natural selection’. My separation from the church also had nothing to do with natural selection. It is inconceivable to some that we simply could not tolerate it anymore. I started reading, I started thinking for myself, I started asking questions that could not be answered to my satisfaction and I became tired of being told to take it on faith just because someone else said so.
I agree, and it saddens me that there are a lot of people out there who would waste their kid’s time on concepts that have no scientific basis, and it’s showing in their test scores.
My background is a science background, the concept of natural selection makes perfect sense to me. So much so that it is beyond my comprehension that others refuse to understand it. Once more, it’s all about what we CHOOSE to believe.

By :)

April 14, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

I realize all the scientific studies that have been done on the bible are helpful and I have read many articles that provided proof for certain events in the bible. I really do appreciate science, I do. I feel though that if that if the science doesn’t add up with the bible, its the science that is in error, not the word of God. Lets not assume that we are smarter than Him because we cannot prove everything or make sense of everything that the bible say’s. He’s just that great, why not??? He’s God.

By Jeff

April 14, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

GJ don’t confuse micro-evolution with macro-evolution. It is not a Christian prospective that there is no evidence for evolution across the species. Lucy is an ape, after DNA testing. Because English moths changed color during the Industrial Revolution does not mean they became birds. Humans have gotten bigger, taller, and stronger with better healthcare, nutrition, etc, but that doesn’t mean we’ve become another link to the food chain.

It’s not Christian to list out the pro’s and cons, the facts for and against, etc., but we seem to be the only ones willing to do it. Scientists will say any claim of non-evidence must be “religious” and dismissable. However, in the case of the Origin of Man, science can not support itself.