Home > Bible Talk > Archives > 2008 > March > 04 > Entry
Does same sex marriage really matter to God?
The California Supreme Court appeared divided on Tuesday over whether to allow gay marriage during nearly four hours of oral arguments on the contentious issue that could impact gay rights nationwide. The hearing brought into focus the highest-profile U.S. fight over gay rights in recent years and the outcome could influence legislation and lawsuits in other states on what have been a hot-button issue in recent election campaigns.” I think it’s going to be a divided opinion but I wouldn’t want to predict who will win,” Christopher Krueger, a lawyer representing the state attorney general who presented arguments before the judges, told Reuters. {Yahoo News}
Aren’t you glad that what we as Christians are to believe isn’t based upon what man believes no matter how knowledgeable those men are-in this case, the California Supreme Court. I’m so glad that the Triune God does not get “divided” on what he thinks! He said: “let your yes be yes, and your no- no!” {James 5:12} And HE doesn’t stutter on the issue of same sex marriage. He said in Genesis 2:24: “Therefore shall a “MAN”, leave his mother and his father, and shall cleave unto his “WIFE”, And they “SHALL BE ONE FLESH”. God created a man and a woman to be able to become one in the flesh. No matter what the California Supreme Court eventually decides, one must admit that no matter how much we would like to change things, you will never be able to make a man on man, or a woman on woman, become one in the flesh as God has ordained!
Is there anyone out there who thinks the California Supreme Court has more wisdom than God who created us? Does same sex marriage really matter to God?????
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Obadiah Sheeply, Straight
March 4, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this
Yes, Joe, I do. There being no independent evidence acceptable to all that God actually exists, it is encumbent on US, using all our wisdom and the very best that we can muster legally, logically and scientifically to treat people equitably even if they are different from us.
IF there is a god, he/she/it will want to know whether we have in fact done that. God will not care about anything else. He will want to know at the end of the day how we treated out fellow man. This is what YOUR GOD, Jesus, talked about almost exclusviely. If “gayness” was such a big deal whay did he have nothing to say about it?The bible beaters have already justified slavery and the subjugation of women in our history, and these things have largely passed. As will this issue which IS an issue only because some individuals in the depths of antiquity were affected with the “euwwww” factor, not being gay themselves and not quite understanding how and why someone else could feel that way. Haven’t we moved beyond that? Let’s enter the modern world. Are we afraid that gays are going to OUTBREED US? (Joke) And how is your or anyone else’s marriage threatened by a gay couple committing to each other?
No need to quote the bible to us on this. The bible was written by HUMAN BEINGS with all the prejudices consistent with their almost prehistoric worldview. We have learned a lot in 3000 years. Let’s act like it.
By 4 Equality
March 4, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this
A church has every right to place parameters on whom it will or will not marry. The state should place no parameters other than those choosing to marry be committed and consensual. We live in a secular state and our marriage laws should reflect that.
By KDF
March 5, 2008 6:45 AM | Link to this
Our Bible was written by humans, under the direct inspiration of God. Play with his words if you like, but it says what it says, and as loving as I am to every single person on this earth, for me God’s words are not there for me to fool around with.
By Just me
March 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
It saddens me to hear such reteric. If we are supposed to do as the bible says we need to get all the black people back into the field, put our women in sub serviant status and stone to death all the people who are living together having sex and not married. Ya right! Get a life and a brain. The only one I have to answer to is myself and God!
By LV
March 5, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
All I have to say is this: From the NIV: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever” Hebrews 13:8. God hasn’t change, it’s man who has changed.
By Gerald
March 5, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
My hang-up is with these Christians who hold up banners and signs that say what God thinks of same-sex marriage or gays. What kind of example is that portraying in the eyes on a non-Christian. The bottom line is that sin is sin, why don’t we have laws against pre-martial sex, lying, stealing, cussing, or any other sin that is mention in the Bible. Sin is Sin—-How will we every get people to come to Christ if we contunie to condemn people for their sin when all of us (Christian or not) have sin that we deal with everyday. My feeling is that they should not pass laws to support same-sex marriage but what are we as Christians doing to help people who are struggling with this type of sin. Are we loving them compassionately and serving their spiritual needs or are we trying to be the judge, jury and executioner.
By SIS
March 5, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
In ways, i agree with “just me” - back in the old days, we justified slavery and treated women like dirt. Why did that change?- Who desided what is right in this day in age? People looked down on interacial marriage at one time- they got over it. Same with gay marriage-GET OVER IT. God showed you who he wanted you to have and spend the rest of your life with and he showed me that person also. God is in the mist of my relationship and continues to bless it. I seek Gods conviction and still i believe he MADE me who i am and no one can change that. I trust that he will touch peoples hearts and we will be able to marry who we wish. I dont understand how God tells you its wrong when he tells me its not. Arent we serving the same God?
By KDF
March 5, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Amen, SIS. Now I will marry my dog. LV’s comments from God’s book are the most accurate that I have read. One can find what he is looking for if he looks hard enough. Slavery, subservient women(Jesus had several women mentioned that followed him, and stood head and heels over the men that claimed Christ), were mostly made by men who wanted domainion; not true followers, and not by all Bible followers.
Eden is about the story of Adam and Eve. Now folks want me to believe in Adam and Steve. I sin, you sin, we all sin, but I have been corrected many a time by the Holy Spirit and God, mostly because I keep an open mind. <><
By Innocent Bystander
March 5, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this
I am truly curious: Why is divorce not illegal? I would be interested to see a situation where conservative Christians had to choose between outlawing divorce (which splits apart families) and outlawing gay marriage (which unites them) I wonder which they would vote for and why. (Barrabas parallel anyone..?)
Anyway, I really don’t understand the whole argument against gay marriage. I mean.. we don’t really require Jews, Muslims, Atheists etc to follow specifically Christian rules or laws in this country. They can still eat kosher, swear to tell the truth on a Koran, and have arranged marriages. All things most Christians steer clear of. We don’t deny people spousal rights because they aren’t married in a church vs a court house. Even Devil worshipers can get married and spawn other little Devil worshippers. So why single out gay people? I know some Christians feel like this country was founded to protect Christian rights and ideals, but I think it was founded as a haven from religious and political oppression.
I have the utmost respect for those that have a strong, unwavering faith in The Bible’s teachings…but at what point are you preaching the Word of God and at what point are you condemning in His place? Wouldn’t it be best to let law-abiding citizens pay taxes in peace, while being afforded all the rights to love as they please and let God sort out the sinners from the righteous?
I happen to know a few gay couples who are living, loving, and raising kids in stable, God-fearing homes. Having experienced their love and devotion to each other, I don’t think it’s my (or anyone’s) place to deny them not only their happiness, but their right to be recognized for what they really are.. wedded to each other, heart and soul. In the eyes of God? Let Him decide. You stay out it.
By Innocent Bystander
March 5, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this
By the way. I was just re-reading Mr. Carbajal’s blog after posting my own comments and noticed the un-bolded sections of his Genesis passage. I would LOVE Mr. Carbajal to call my mother-in-law and let her know she was supposed to let her son go when we got married so he could “cleave” unto me. She drives me CRAZY with her meddling. I am going to try the Genesis quote on her at our next family gathering. I’ll let you know how that works out.
By GJ
March 6, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
The courts are here to protect the rights of the citizens. Religious tyranny and xenophobia have to be guarded against.
By sylvia
March 6, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
The issue of same-sex marriages is something that should be left up to the individual people involved. The bible states Woe unto the entire inhabited earth for satan has been casted down upon you. This earth and the people living in are under the influence of satan and his demons. I believe that we are living during the thousand year reign of satan. Why has god allowed this to be? Because we have free will. He left us with a guide for life and if anyone chooses to do otherwise, then they will be the one that will stand before God in the day of judgement. Each one of us will be accountable for our actions and the way we chose to live. I’m sure we all have heard it said judge not, lest we be judged. Jesus said to love our neighbor the way we love him. Who is our neighbor? Everyone. So if we profess a love for God and his son Jesus, we will try to follow the example set by Jesus. In all situations ask yourself, What would jesus do? I’m sure he wouldn’t be quick to judge everyone on the basis of one. How awful that would be in the day of judgement.
By KDF
March 6, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this
All skeptics, keep in mind that Christians do argue and do not always agree. Biblical Christians (Peter and Paul are good examples), and earlier Jewish people argued and disagreed, too, in the books of the Bible, and God’s final word eventually solved the problem. We are far from perfect at this moment.
And for those who believe this nation was founded by secular fathers, go back and read your history books. Thomas Jefferson is known as a theist, and was probably the closest person not believing in a Triune God. But we were founded by Christians who left England to form around a God of their choice, and the writings of our founding fathers deeply reflect their faith. George Washington said that a nation not founded on biblical principles was doomed to fail. Look at the U.S. today!
By Innocent Bystander
March 6, 2008 10:02 PM | Link to this
“Thrice happy shall they be pronounced hereafter, they who have contributed any thing, who have performed the meanest office in erecting this stupendous fabric of Freedom and Empire on the broad basis of Independency; who have assisted in protecting the rights of humanity and establishing an asylum for the poor and oppressed of all nations and religions.” -George Washington April 18, 1783 Oppressed of ALL religions. Not just one. I think in offering asylum to all, but rights to few, we are NOT following the best examples set by our founding fathers, but the worst.
By Innocent Bystander
March 6, 2008 10:14 PM | Link to this
Wait… I remembered a better quote from our most esteemed and very Christian first President (I had to look it up to make sure I was correct): “We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth & reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition, and that every person may here worship God according to the dictates of his own heart. In this enlightened age & in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws.”
Letter To the members of the New Church of Baltimore (22 January 1793) That sounds like George Washington supports civil rights and religious freedom to me!
By DR
March 7, 2008 1:41 AM | Link to this
Well, this could go on and on couldn’t it, LOL!. Well, regardless we all know not only according to the bible that matrimony is between a man and a women, its also pretty obvious that even an atheist would agree that its a little strange and not the norm for a man and a man to marry. A few groups and of course the ACLU want us to think its normal to have same sex marriage, when its not, and never will be. At least when interacial marriage was frowned upon, it was still between a man and a women. Religious freedom is what our first President was referring to Mr. Innocent Bystander. How can you take that quote you looked up and twist it as it is relevant to the issue at hand? Here is where I stand. To God, it wrong, just like a lot of things because you can’t re-produce offspring. Let me just be honest and please understand, I have known homosexuals throughout my life. To me, I don’t want my children walking around seeing men with men and women with women and think its ok. I choose to teach them what’s right and wrong. As far as a non-elected court deciding this, I don’t think its there job to do so. It should be left to the people to decide through their representatives in Congress and if America wants to ban gay marriage, then do it through the amendment process. So, let’s not hold our breath on this amendment as Republicans have promised year after year. Its not going to happen anytime soon. So all the Christians out there that vote for them because they feel they will preserve our Christian values the best, don’t be so sure about that. Make them earn our votes(venting a bit, LOL!).
By :)
March 7, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this
TO SIS: If I understand you right. I don’t see how you can come up with the idea that God would put it in anyones heart to marry someone of the same sex. No ofense seriously and I don’t know yo but, you sound like someone that does what she wants anyway instead of God’s way. Sorry, you lost me with your comment. Its not about what you want to do, but what’s right and if God and his word is your moral compass, then your are incorrect to think he would allow this. If your not a Christian, then I understand how you feel and respect what you are trying to say. But as a Christian, I don’t undertstand the basis for your argument.
By SIS
March 7, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Beleive it or not I am God fearing and seek his guidence everyday.If God told me to marry a man instead i would- if he told me to jump of a bridge..i wouldnt understand it, but I WOULD- You think if God placed it in your heart to marry me and my girlfriend you WOULD?
You are arrogant to insinuate you understand why God does the things he does. You dont understand how he could place in our hearts to marry same sex but none of us will understand why he does or allows alot of things to happen in the world.
By KDF
March 7, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
God places us, or allows us to be where we are if we live according to His will. Unless we are prophets, He normally will not tell us what to do. The decisions we make are of our own free will.
SIS, why are you angry with hetrosexual Christians? I never walk around and talk about my wife, or our relations; why are homosexuals so virulent and verbal about their own?
Bottom-line: If we accept Jesus Christ as our savior, equal to God the Father, then we are saved, no matter what we practice. We will all bow before Jesus one day, and hear true judgment. Thank you for your love, Jesus!!!
This entry is written with a smile on my face and love in my heart. Let us not play good Christian, bad Christian. Discuss, don’t argue.
By FAITH
March 7, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
the number 1 promblem is that people has got certain verses in the bible and tried to switch it into how they want to live. not how it says it in the bible!! no same sex marriage is not allowed! To SIS: no God did not put it in peoples heart to date the same sex, that is a thoght the devil puts in their head. and yes although we may not understand why god allows things to happen, not everything we do is Gods will it is ours. He does not approve of what we do, but he allows it to teach us the truth. To KDF: no i doesnt matter if you BELIEVE you are saved and what you practice. anyone can beileve in naythign and practive anythign that doesnt not nesscary make them that way. and besides it takes more than just believing to be called a Christian!!!
bottom line: the world is coming to an end and at this time is when the devil will go though all means to make beleive what is not truth. if you are true and faithful christian you will know the difference and will be strong enough to not fall into that trap.
but there is only person who can judge us and determine if we are real or not. i pray that by that everyone will at least get to know the truth and not what the world is wanting us to think or beleive.
GOD BLESS!!!
By FAITH
March 7, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
the number 1 promblem is that people has got certain verses in the bible and tried to switch it into how they want to live. not how it says it in the bible!! no same sex marriage is not allowed! To SIS: no God did not put it in peoples heart to date the same sex, that is a thoght the devil puts in their head. and yes although we may not understand why god allows things to happen, not everything we do is Gods will it is ours. He does not approve of what we do, but he allows it to teach us the truth. To KDF: no i doesnt matter if you BELIEVE you are saved and what you practice. anyone can beileve in naythign and practice anything that doesnt not nesscary make them that way. and besides it takes more than just believing to be called a Christian!!!
bottom line: the world is coming to an end and at this time is when the devil will go though all means to make beleive what is not truth. if you are true and faithful christian you will know the difference and will be strong enough to not fall into that trap.
but there is only person who can judge us and determine if we are real or not. i pray that by that everyone will at least get to know the truth and not what the world is wanting us to think or beleive.
GOD BLESS!!!
By FAITH
March 7, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
the number 1 promblem is that people has got certain verses in the bible and tried to switch it into how they want to live. not how it says it in the bible!! no same sex marriage is not allowed! To SIS: no God did not put it in peoples heart to date the same sex, that is a thoght the devil puts in their head. and yes although we may not understand why god allows things to happen, not everything we do is Gods will it is ours. He does not approve of what we do, but he allows it to teach us the truth. To KDF: no i doesnt matter if you BELIEVE you are saved and what you practice. anyone can beileve in naythign and practice anything that doesnt not nesscary make them that way. and besides it takes more than just believing to be called a Christian!!!
bottom line: the world is coming to an end and at this time is when the devil will go though all means to make beleive what is not truth. if you are true and faithful christian you will know the difference and will be strong enough to not fall into that trap.
but there is only person who can judge us and determine if we are real or not. i pray that by that everyone will at least get to know the truth and not what the world is wanting us to think or beleive.
GOD BLESS!!!
By :)
March 7, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this
Well SIS, I don’t know what to tell if you believe how you do. I guess you need to talk to others outside your circle to see what they say about God putting it in you heart to be with a same sex partner. This is where we differ on beliefs and your entitled to your own beliefs. I believe salvation is for free but confirmed by our actions and strengthen through our obedience to God as we grow. I am not going to change your mind in a blog but hopefully, something or someone can convince you to see what me and Faith are trying to say. Good comment Faith. Because we are saved, we need to understand that we don’t have the freedom to keep on sinning or do what we want if we know its wrong. Please read Romans 6:15-18, it talks about change in our life and what Paul say’s about staying in our old ways. Please don’t be offended, its not supposed to be that way, at least between Christians. -:)
By :)
March 7, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this
Romans 14:1 “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” This is my scripture when I become to critical, lol!
:)
By KDF
March 7, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this
Faith: I agree with you. Christ must guide our actions, but often we fail, and the Holy Spirit does not leave us out to dry. He continues to guide us to Jesus. Proverbs 24:16 says “For a just man falls seven times, and rises up again.” We are all sinners, but we ask to be guided in the Light. …and may I always rise again!!! <><
By D
March 7, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this
I like your perspective on this KDF. Great comment!
-D
By D
March 7, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this
I like your perspective on this KDF. Great comment!
-D
By Pastor Joe A. Carbajal
March 7, 2008 9:27 PM | Link to this
To all my fellow bloggers:
Thanks for the lively dialogue!!!I was tempted to jump in on occasion but to your credit, all of you seemed to be doing a fine job without my help. I hope no one believes I write these blogs just to stir people up. I do look for news articles written everyday so that I won’t be accused of just writting to my liking. I do also hope that no one would think I write any of thses blogs just to be unkind to any segment of our society. Again, I have some beautiful people in my church who struggle with these issues but not once have I not showed them the love and respect that should come from a Christian. But as one who has been called to declare the word of God, my only source will be the gospel of Jesus Christ.He said that heaven and earth would pass away, but his word never would. Unfortunately, In my past life and even now at times, I want the word to fit my situation, but in the end, I have to admit that the word never changes and that it is the one and only staple of truth for which I can hang my hat. Call it out of date, not good for the times we live in,but it is still truth that shines in the darkness of my soul. We can quote other men and sources, but it will never take away from God’s word still being the best source of truth for our daily lives!
I love you all! Pastor!
By Aurora Grinie
March 8, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this
I have enjoyed your articles very much. You have always been straight to the truth. Even thought some of your articles hit me hard, I know you speak from the heart. Keep up the good work!!!!
By GJ
March 8, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Joe,
Your opinions are certainly welcome. The only time my hackles are raised is when religious folks use their “inspired” books as blunt weapons on the rest of us. This is a secular nation (read the Constitution), full of people of many beliefs - or no beliefs at all beyond what we know.
Even when I was a Christian, I knew this nation was for everyone - even those I disagreed with.
Peace and happiness,
GJ
By KDF
March 9, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
GJ, we are a secular nation founded on biblical principles. Please read letters and forwardings of our founding fathers; letters in abundance, but rarely identified in the press.
By GJ
March 9, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Simply not true, KDF. Read the Constitution - no mention of God, Jesus, or Christianity. Many of the Founders were religious, however they made sure the government did not impose religion on the people.
E pluribus unum.
By :)
March 9, 2008 8:04 PM | Link to this
Ok, GJ, I’m going to say this once and for all. You know darn well that most of the founding fathers were Christian, with a few exceptions of people like Thomas Jefferson who were diest, and whos bible has been discredited for removing all the miracles out of it. The only reason that religion was not implemented into the constitution was because of the persecution that the established church of England and the previous Catholic Church imposed on their citizens, in which I agree should not be forced or coerced. People that believe that this would happen all over again are out of touch with reality because it would not happen anymore. The founding fathers would have never agreed to the hostility that is directed towards religion from a few people that are atheist. The so called “wall of seperation” that you are insinuating is our standard, is also not in the constitution at all. Justice Black, who was a very ideological judge as well as Scalia is for the conservatives, transferred a constitutional provision that was not in the constitution and used a “doctrine” to attempt to create a standard that would seperate the two, that just does not work at all. Today it is loosing ground because of its non-constitutionality. The reason it is coming down slowly is because it should have never been established as precendent in the first place and many judges, including O’Connor, who was the swing vote at times, have written opinions that tare apart this doctrine of seperation. Also, the lemon test is another standard that the court has used to spread hostitlity towards religion. Lack of a clear reaffirmation of the central tenets of Lemon over the years since the 1980s, and inconsistent application in major Establishment Clause cases has led some legal commentators and lower court judges to believe that Lemon’s days are numbered, and that the Court has implicitly left the decision of whether to apply the test in a specific case up to lower courts. Vouchers for school, prayer for students, monuments of the 10 commandments are being allowed on the grounds of courthouses (Van Orton v Perry), and many more cases that allow religion to be displayed and respected around the country. Bottom line, and I have not begun to prove my case but, relgion will always be allowed to mix and there is nothing you can do about it. Everson v. Board of Education should have never implemented the “Wall of Seperation”, in your own words “its not in the constitution.” I know this blog was about marraige, but i had to comment on this because this is the reason we have many people that believe seperation of church and state is some sort of right thats in our constitution and most are not aware that it was used in a letter and was written by Thomas Jefferson in a January 1, 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, where Justice Black found it. Just look at it this way… you got lucky that you had a judge/s between the 1940’s-1960’s that set standards that help build your case for an anti-religious america because if you look at history, your argument would make no sense. I am glad that religion is not forced, and it would make no sense to do this because we would never be able to allow people to choose Christ. But, at the same time, its embarrasing to insinuate that religion played no part in the beginnings of this country.
By jessale
March 18, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this
Yes it matter thoses that don’t beleive what the word of God says,will perish.In the beginning was the word and when he spoke things were made ,he made Adam and Eve for Adam , she is the help mate ,wife for Adam.People react to lust ,lusting for that which is not natural ,nor og God.God word will not change it will be here when nothing esle,so those of them that says they were born that way,stop lying to yourself you’re acting out on lust.Turn it over to the Lord he can fix it .Read the word of God starting at the beginning you won’t be lead wrong ,ask God for an understanding and ask he to lead you to the right church that don’t uphold that.